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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:19 pm 
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I recieved the below today:

Mountian Bike Magazine is looking for images of Adam Craig during a Rally Race. Adam has informed me that you have some images, would you mind sending me the high res versions? As soon as possible would be great! Please let me know if you have any questions.

I understand Adam happens to be a nationally ranked mountain bike racer as well as a Rally racer. When I shot a rally early this year, I happened to chat with a friend of this person (never met him), anyway I shared some low res shots with him through the friend (she is very cute) for use in a webzine, again bicycle based. Those were published and credited to me, okay by me. It was agreed to in writing on a rights based agreement for that specific use, and the racer apparently respected the copyright by referring the above to me, again nice.

And now I get the above request, I sent a nice reply stating I was pleased they were interested in the shots and inquired about usage and compensation. They responded credit only was their standards terms for this type of image... ? :?

And went on to say that the credit would be good for my career. Again nicely (I only do nice twice usually) I responded that I am regularly published in a local magazine and have been in regional and national publications and "more" credit isn't a real career move I need or desire. Anyway I did send a few low-res watermarked shots to the editor so she could see the work offered.

The last e-mail again didn't offer terms but requested contacts of where I am published or have been published. I am tempted to blow them off, or maybe have my magazine publisher call them (she would do it for me), don't think my local newspaper editor would bother but this kind of vetting is not something I have ever experienced before. And don't understand the reason, if they want the shots make an offer; why the need for a resume?


Here is an example of one of the shots fwiw

Image

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:56 pm 
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Yeah, that seems to be the way things are going these days. I've received a few requests for images "for credit". Credit doesn't pay for my gear, nor my time to learn how to use it. And with so many magazines paying "credit" for images, what's the point of developing a career doing it?

The problem is there are so many amateurs that are willing to give them images just for the rush of seeing their name in a magazine. I used to be one of those amateurs, but no more. You want my images, give me something in return.

I do still shoot the fireworks competitions without getting paid, but I do that for the access. I get a nice, reserved space that no one else can get too. Plus I keep the copyright of the images, they just get use of them without the right to sell.

Someone here posted a sample reply to these type of requests. It was polite, to the point, and clearly stated what you expect in return for use of the images (ie: money). I gotta dig that up again, and keep it around for the next request I get.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:01 pm 
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They could easily look up your work, asking you supply them with a "resume" after the fact is a slap in the face imo. I'd blow them off, but then I'm a little too hot headed for my own good most of the time.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:18 pm 
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Rather than fish for what they are willing to pay tell them what it will take to use one of your images. 100 dollars for a half page. If they want to use it on a cover ask for more. If they don't want to pay for your work they are welcome to look elsewhere.

I only submit my images to magazines that pay for prints I haven't had many printed but for the few I have had printed it was worth it to me.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:02 am 
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ScottHadl wrote:
Rather than fish for what they are willing to pay tell them what it will take to use one of your images. 100 dollars for a half page. If they want to use it on a cover ask for more. If they don't want to pay for your work they are welcome to look elsewhere.

I only submit my images to magazines that pay for prints I haven't had many printed but for the few I have had printed it was worth it to me.


I am not fishing, and I won't quote a number without knowing the expected rights, usage, circulation, size and placements. I asked told them in the initial e-mail: " I have attached a few images that I found at hand that you maybe interested in. If so I look forward to your offer of terms of usage, compensation along with format and file size requirements that you may require."

So they have seen a few of the shots, had my request of what their expected use would be. I did respond to their request for a "resume" with a short list of publications I have had images in that were solicited from me and not submitted by myself along w/ the photo or art directors nameand I'll leave it there

Whether they want to use them or not really doesn't mean anything to me, it is only about the benjamin's, if they do make an offer and it is a lowball one I will decline. And I will not assist in perpetuating this now "common" editorial process in a commercial venture of getting the shots for free.

I am thinking like Jon maybe at this point, I don't suffer a fool gladly and any further "requests" of information or whatever will be blown off. They can find shots of their story elsewhere... maybe.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:38 am 
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The Scout
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Good points Brad, It is in all our best interest to learn the value of our images before we agree to have them published.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:52 am 
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In the on-going tale, I wake up to an e-mail asking me to complete a W-9, a listing of the rates and a note that if or when they decide to use the shots they will "request" the full resolution images. Bit different from "send the high res as soon as possible" paraphrased from the original e-mail.

For those interested this publisher which covers Bicycling and Mountain Bike magazines currently pays per image:
Spot $150
1/8 pg $175
1/4 pg $210
1/2 pg $250
3/4 pg $300
full pg $350
Spread/cover $600

Whether they print them or not the lesson still is don't roll over for credit, if the shot is something they want the checkbook will open up.

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It is said that life is but a stage, my question is why so many are mis-cast for the parts they play?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:03 am 
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mikealex wrote:
Yeah, that seems to be the way things are going these days. I've received a few requests for images "for credit". Credit doesn't pay for my gear, nor my time to learn how to use it. And with so many magazines paying "credit" for images, what's the point of developing a career doing it?

The problem is there are so many amateurs that are willing to give them images just for the rush of seeing their name in a magazine. I used to be one of those amateurs, but no more. You want my images, give me something in return.

I do still shoot the fireworks competitions without getting paid, but I do that for the access. I get a nice, reserved space that no one else can get too. Plus I keep the copyright of the images, they just get use of them without the right to sell.

Someone here posted a sample reply to these type of requests. It was polite, to the point, and clearly stated what you expect in return for use of the images (ie: money). I gotta dig that up again, and keep it around for the next request I get.


I meant to speak to something you mentioned here Mike which I think is a very good point. You brought up that you still will shoot fireworks for access and I do the same for a couple organizations as well. There are many venues or areas where one has to have an in to get to and if it means doing them a favor to get it returned I see no issue in it.

One I work with is the Capitol Land Trust, they work to conserve wildlife habitat and natural areas. I get access to some of their "private" areas, they get the use of a few of my images through the year for mailings and such. Recently sent them a few images of birds in winter scenes for their holiday cards sent to donors and political figures. These are very nicely produced cards and not only am I credited but my site address is included as well. I think it pays off much better for me than them but still a win/win situation.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:20 pm 
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I got published a couple of times in Sport Compact Car, but even though they paid me their standard rate (I can't remember what it was) it was a bad deal.

They paid 6 months after publication (about 9 months after I shot the images on assignment). Not very good for cash flow. I had to drive from Long Island to Middletown, NY (about 100 miles) for the shoot so I had some expenses too.

I gave up on shooting for magazines at that point. I know that there are some people making a living at that kind of work, I just don't know how.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:52 pm 
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Packard wrote:
I got published a couple of times in Sport Compact Car, but even though they paid me their standard rate (I can't remember what it was) it was a bad deal.

They paid 6 months after publication (about 9 months after I shot the images on assignment). Not very good for cash flow. I had to drive from Long Island to Middletown, NY (about 100 miles) for the shoot so I had some expenses too.

I gave up on shooting for magazines at that point. I know that there are some people making a living at that kind of work, I just don't know how.


I used to read that rag, gave up when the image quality went down.

Even with the magazine I have a regular relationship with payment is always delayed after an assignment though I am getting paid prior to publishing. But even then the amount paid is always less then what was initially quoted. A followup call and I get the difference usually in less than week, just the nature of editors I assume.

The next gig I have with them is next Saturday, a black tie dinner affair for St. Martins College. Shooting the movers, shakers and donors after they have a bit of time for tippling.

I'm heading out shortly to get my rental tux fitted, and the magazine is supposed to reimburse me for that as well but we will see. At least I know I will get a dinner, a few drinks and get to have my gf attend this gala with me. She is looking forward to buying a new evening dress today. And I am not having her work the event with me, made the rag supply an assistant.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:12 pm 
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Bradm wrote:
I used to read that rag, gave up when the image quality went down.


Presumably after my images were published?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:10 am 
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Packard wrote:
Bradm wrote:
I used to read that rag, gave up when the image quality went down.


Presumably after my images were published?


I am almost certain I didn't drop the subscription when I saw your shots, most likely after they were no longer being printed. 8)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:09 pm 
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As far as the discussion goes...even the small local papers I find annoying. One such paper I have sent in shots of my son for "Free" along with a write up to get him in the paper. My wife and son get a kick out of it, so bully for me...

They have requested shots from me before for "Credit", I always refuse.

They claim to not pay photographers, however there are two that always have their names credited to images...either they are very giving or getting paid.

Good job sticking to your guns and getting what you wanted from them.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:30 pm 
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Mountain Bike Magazine is no small magazine either. It's actually published by http://www.rodale.com/1,6597,7,00.html who publishes a lot of big magazines- Men's Health, Runners, Best Life, etc. Sounds like they were just trying to be cheap and get the pictures for free knowing they could pay if you asked for it. I'm glad you stuck to your guns. The rates sound pretty standard from what I have read that consumer publications offer for freelance submissions.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:51 pm 
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Rodale is huge, I used to get cycling magazine and one other I cannot remember the name of both published by them.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:55 pm 
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Been traveling for work and when I got home I found an e-mail asking for two full size shots to be used at least 1/8th page. I sent them the W9, the shots and an invoice. Think the only issue might be my standard terms of copyright usage which was included in the invoice, they are pretty standard though.

Copyright usage: The photographer or his legal representative (hereinafter, "AGENT") agrees to license use of above listed images to Mountain Biking Magazine
The AGENT hereby grants to the Mountain Biking Magazine the non-exclusive right to use the IMAGES(S) designated within this AGREEMENT in perpetuity for the LICENSED USE designated by AGENT, and under the conditions set forth in this AGREEMENT.

Nothing herein contained shall be construed to restrict or prohibit the AGENT from entering into similar agreements with other persons with respect to any of the IMAGES(S) licensed or to be licensed to the Mountain Biking Magazine. The use of the IMAGES(S) by Mountain Biking Magazine shall be limited and restricted solely to the LICENSED USE designated by the Agent.
The AGENT does hereby represent and warrant that he is either a) the holder of the copyright of the IMAGE(S), or b) authorized to license IMAGES(S) by the copyright owner. The AGENT further represents and warrants that he or she has the full power and authority to enter into this AGREEMENT and grant to Mountain Biking Magazine the license rights described herein. AGENT shall indemnify and hold harmless Mountain Biking Magazine from and against any and all claims, damages, causes of action, or expenses (including reasonable attorney’s fees) arising directly or indirectly from AGENT’s breach of any of the representations and warranties contained in this Paragraph
Mountain Biking Magazine agrees to credit the AGENT, or Agent’s designee, under the following guidelines:

a. Photographer credit will not be shown on thumbnails or selected parts of an image. For this purpose, thumbnails will be defined as images 125 pixels wide by 125 pixels tall, or smaller.

b. All images larger than thumbnail size will be credited by showing the photographers name with © designation in one of three locations:
1. Directly on the image. 2. On a roll-over of the image. 3. In text on the same page as the image.
Mountain Biking Magazine may not sell or otherwise transfer any right or interest in the IMAGES(S) or copies of the IMAGES(S) without the express prior written consent of the AGENT.
This AGREEMENT shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of Washington and any action hereunder may be duly filed within the jurisdiction of the State of Washington.

No modification to this AGREEMENT shall be valid or binding unless made in writing and executed by both parties hereto.



The rights I granted was standard as well, print, web or promotional publication, guess I'll see.

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